IIRC the last level costs about the same as the blueprint (at 28% of highsec cost) and saves 40-50m on both dreads and carriers. So, 20-50 runs.
Which I guess is really quite a long time, but that isk doesn't just vanish -- it gets added to the value of the blueprint, and you can recoup it later.
My blueprints are 7/20 to get that 3 lvls up I have to give my BPO for 349days and 1.2b isk to save that 40-50m Parasoja is saying. I didn't put them on research and I'm in dilemma if I should. isk is not the problem but a BPO been locked for a year is something.
I think the new research system is not that noob friendly it is not even vet friendly :) I started my capital BPO investment the wrong time, till the patch roll out I had them at ME 7 with all the parts at max ME PE at that time but now I don't know if it is worth the time invested for those 40-50m isk profit. I know profit is profit but I don't know if I'll play this game next year and still doing manufacturing.
Hmm and during the time you have the BPO in research you can't build so you that's also profit you lose out on.
@Parasoja, well I think the overhaul brought mostly (small) improvements. Researching that last ME level now sucks but the new system is more user friendly in general. Inventing T2 blueprints is a lot easier. But maybe there is a difference in perception between casual and the more serious industrialist.
Well... yeah. I'll admit that if I really have to. I kind of like that reprocessing can't return such a high percentage any more, and even I have an idea of how bad T2 was before.
I don't know what volume of hulls can make someone a serious industrialist, but from my point of view it giving your BPO for 1 year to get perfect ME and one year to get perfect TE is not noob friendly (also you will need 1b to buy the BPO and then one more billion to research it for ME and one more for TE) so if you want a noob to enter the so called Capital manufacturing in the terms of perfection he need to have spare 3 billions and 2 years of time (plex), or he can buy it from contracts with perfect ME / TE and save him the time in research.
I am not a new player and I am standing here with a dilemma what to do with them manufacture or research them. atm I'm manufacturing them and take the hit on the profit but investing in Capital BPOs with researching all the components and the hull bpo itself is a very time consuming process that I believe new players don't want to enter.
The interface is better but I don't like the ME/TE mechanic.
I just went ahead and put my capital BPO collection in the cooker for ME 10. It only cost me about 60mil per BPO for carriers, double that for dreads, plus four and a half months of POS fuel. Why so low? I searched for a system with ME research index nearing zero, and setup a POS for that specific purpose. Of course it's a one shot thing, because afterwards the index will be bad and one would have to look for another system to do it cheaply.
I understand what you say, yes you can search a quiet system and get your BPOs to perfect attribute level in this time, what I don't like is that with the new changes you make a gap to the new players against the older. I know that there will always be a gap between the older and the younger but with the invention changes this gap didn't get bigger, it got smaller. at the other hand getting in manufacturing now you have to wait to get perfect BPOs and compete against the older manufacturers.
You say "go to a quiet system" 60m per BPO and 350-400m for a large tower (also having a corporation) 200m hardwire 2.5b for fuels and the risk of your tower been blown + freighter for moving fuels/strontium.
this is not a noob friendly manufacturing. Yes getting in corp to get access to a tower is a solution but will you go out there and put your 150+b BPOs into those lab lines that anyone with the right roles can have access?
So what makes capital BPO not a simple T1 BPO? Capital BPOs are T1 also and simple, the isk barrier is the only thing that can keep you out of capital manufacturing and this is not a big barrier. And if you think that isk is the one thing that make capital not a simple BPO then every BS BPO is also not simple.
If you want new pilots to enter the game, they must be near the older pilots in the aspect of assets acquisition. They still have the skill gap that difference them from the older pilots.
The bigger isk and time investment is a reason yes, another difference I'd make is that capital ships are constructed from parts so you need a whole collection of blueprints. You mention the requirement of a POS. Running a POS is also something which I don't a noob activity.
And if someone is spending these amounts of isk and time you can assume they are not a startup player looking at their first blueprint. It's a matter of scale in part.
Man, I'm a bit jealous. Maybe I should begin with capital manufacturing, also. :)
ReplyDeleteHow long before researching from ME9 to 10 turns a profit?
ReplyDeleteIIRC the last level costs about the same as the blueprint (at 28% of highsec cost) and saves 40-50m on both dreads and carriers. So, 20-50 runs.
DeleteWhich I guess is really quite a long time, but that isk doesn't just vanish -- it gets added to the value of the blueprint, and you can recoup it later.
My blueprints are 7/20 to get that 3 lvls up I have to give my BPO for 349days and 1.2b isk to save that 40-50m Parasoja is saying. I didn't put them on research and I'm in dilemma if I should. isk is not the problem but a BPO been locked for a year is something.
DeleteYeah. What I'd want to do is build on one set at some reasonable material level, then get a second set and start researching that one to 10/whatever.
DeleteI think the new research system is not that noob friendly it is not even vet friendly :) I started my capital BPO investment the wrong time, till the patch roll out I had them at ME 7 with all the parts at max ME PE at that time but now I don't know if it is worth the time invested for those 40-50m isk profit. I know profit is profit but I don't know if I'll play this game next year and still doing manufacturing.
DeleteYup. In fact, I'll do you one better: The entire industry overhaul is bullshit.
DeleteWhy - help me understand
DeleteBecause it made things worse and more complicated, which is the opposite of what's supposed to happen when you overhaul something.
DeleteHmm and during the time you have the BPO in research you can't build so you that's also profit you lose out on.
ReplyDelete@Parasoja, well I think the overhaul brought mostly (small) improvements. Researching that last ME level now sucks but the new system is more user friendly in general. Inventing T2 blueprints is a lot easier. But maybe there is a difference in perception between casual and the more serious industrialist.
Well... yeah. I'll admit that if I really have to. I kind of like that reprocessing can't return such a high percentage any more, and even I have an idea of how bad T2 was before.
DeleteHowever, I reserve the right to be bitter.
I don't know what volume of hulls can make someone a serious industrialist, but from my point of view it giving your BPO for 1 year to get perfect ME and one year to get perfect TE is not noob friendly (also you will need 1b to buy the BPO and then one more billion to research it for ME and one more for TE) so if you want a noob to enter the so called Capital manufacturing in the terms of perfection he need to have spare 3 billions and 2 years of time (plex), or he can buy it from contracts with perfect ME / TE and save him the time in research.
ReplyDeleteI am not a new player and I am standing here with a dilemma what to do with them manufacture or research them.
atm I'm manufacturing them and take the hit on the profit but investing in Capital BPOs with researching all the components and the hull bpo itself is a very time consuming process that I believe new players don't want to enter.
The interface is better but I don't like the ME/TE mechanic.
I just went ahead and put my capital BPO collection in the cooker for ME 10. It only cost me about 60mil per BPO for carriers, double that for dreads, plus four and a half months of POS fuel. Why so low? I searched for a system with ME research index nearing zero, and setup a POS for that specific purpose. Of course it's a one shot thing, because afterwards the index will be bad and one would have to look for another system to do it cheaply.
ReplyDeleteI understand what you say, yes you can search a quiet system and get your BPOs to perfect attribute level in this time, what I don't like is that with the new changes you make a gap to the new players against the older. I know that there will always be a gap between the older and the younger but with the invention changes this gap didn't get bigger, it got smaller. at the other hand getting in manufacturing now you have to wait to get perfect BPOs and compete against the older manufacturers.
DeleteYou say "go to a quiet system" 60m per BPO and 350-400m for a large tower (also having a corporation) 200m hardwire 2.5b for fuels and the risk of your tower been blown + freighter for moving fuels/strontium.
this is not a noob friendly manufacturing.
Yes getting in corp to get access to a tower is a solution but will you go out there and put your 150+b BPOs into those lab lines that anyone with the right roles can have access?
Using a POS and building/researching capitals isn't really a newbie activity.
DeleteResearching a simple T1 BPO and building from that is.
So what makes capital BPO not a simple T1 BPO? Capital BPOs are T1 also and simple, the isk barrier is the only thing that can keep you out of capital manufacturing and this is not a big barrier.
DeleteAnd if you think that isk is the one thing that make capital not a simple BPO then every BS BPO is also not simple.
If you want new pilots to enter the game, they must be near the older pilots in the aspect of assets acquisition. They still have the skill gap that difference them from the older pilots.
The bigger isk and time investment is a reason yes, another difference I'd make is that capital ships are constructed from parts so you need a whole collection of blueprints.
DeleteYou mention the requirement of a POS. Running a POS is also something which I don't a noob activity.
And if someone is spending these amounts of isk and time you can assume they are not a startup player looking at their first blueprint. It's a matter of scale in part.